Now, the need for advocacy

7 Message(s) by 4 Author(s) originally posted in java advocacy

From: Berlin Brown

Date: Thursday, January 11, 2007

You know I kind of forgot about this forum. it has been a while. But
with all of the open

1. To prepare to read or write a file.  This usually involves
	checking whether the file already exists and that the user has
	the necessary authorisation to read or write it.  The result
	of a successful open is usually some kind of {capability}
	(e.g. a {Unix} {file descriptor}) - a token that the user
	passes back to the system in order to access the file without
	further checks and finally to close the file.

	2. Abbreviation for "open (or left) parenthesis" - used when
	necessary to eliminate oral ambiguity.  To read aloud the LISP
	form (DEFUN FOO (X) (PLUS X 1)) one might say: "Open defun
	foo, open eks close, open, plus eks one, close close."

	3. Non-proprietary.  An open {standard} is one which can be
	used without payment.

	[{Jargon File}]

	(1995-01-31)

source zealots taking a direct stab at JAVA (who
really knows why), this is a great time for advocacy.

Since, I'vent been here in a while; you might want to fill me on the
responses to the Haskell/Lisp/Rails people.

To me, these tools are great, but for practical enterprise

<body> A business, generally a large one.

	(1994-11-22)

web?
application development; JAVA is still going to be king with .NET
behind it.

I posted this on reddit a while back, got almost 200 responses:

http://programming.reddit.com/info/utqb/comments

Bot Berlin
http://www.botspiritcompany.com/botlist

From: Lion-O

Date: Friday, January 12, 2007

You know I kind of forgot about this forum.

Hmm, I'd be more tempted to call this a usenet group

A group G is a non-empty {set} upon which a {binary} operator
	* is defined with the following properties for all a,b,c in G:

	  Closure:     G is closed under *,  a*b in G
	  Associative: * is associative on G, (a*b)*c = a*(b*c)
	  Identity:    There is an identity element  e  such that
		       a*e = e*a = a.
	  Inverse:     Every element has a unique inverse a' such that
		       a * a' = a' * a = e.  The inverse is usually
		       written with a superscript -1.

	(1998-10-03)

but hey ;)

it has been a while. But with all of the opensource zealots taking a direct
stab at JAVA (who really knows why), this is a great time for advocacy.

Is not that a little too little too late? ;-)

While I do agree that many people kept whining about the sourcecode not being
available even though it has been available for years now (which ofcourse at a
later time when more people finally came to realize this was quickly changed to
"the policy sucks") its still become a moot point

1. <unit, text> (Sometimes abbreviated "pt") The unit of
	length used in {typography} to specify text character height,
	{rule} width, and other small measurements.

	There are six slightly different definitions: {Truchet point},
	{Didot point}, {ATA point}, {TeX point}, {Postscript point},
	and {IN point}.

	In Europe, the most commonly used is Didot and in the US, the
	formerly standard ATA point has essentially been replaced by
	the PostScript point due to the demise of traditional
	typesetting systems and rise of desktop computer based systems
	running software such as {QuarkXPress}, {Adobe InDesign} and
	{Adobe Pagemaker}.

	There are 20 {twips} in a point and 12 points in a {pica}
	(known as a "Cicero" in the Didot system).

	{Different point systems
	(http://www.vakcer.com/oberon/dtp/fonts/point.htm)}.

	(2004-12-23)

	2. <hardware> To move a {pointing device} so that the
	on-screen pointer is positioned over a certain object on the
	screen such as a {button} in a {graphical user interface}.  In
	most {window systems} it is then necessary to {click} a
	(physical) button on the pointing device to activate or select
	the object.  In some systems, just pointing to an object is
	known as "mouse-over" {event} which may cause some help text
	(called a "tool tip" in {Windows}) to be displayed.

	(2001-05-21)

now that Sun

started to
release parts of the JAVA language

1. <language, programming> {programming language}.

	2. <human language> {natural language}.

	(1998-09-07)

under the GPL.

I posted this on reddit a while back, got almost 200 responses:

<cut>

Maybe you should consider getting another hobby, trolling and spamming

1. <messaging> (From Hormel's Spiced Ham, via the Monty Python
	"Spam" song) To post irrelevant or inappropriate messages to
	one or more {Usenet} {newsgroups}, {mailing lists}, or other
	messaging system in deliberate or accidental violation of
	{netiquette}.

	It is possible to spam a newsgroup with one well- (or ill-)
	planned message, e.g. asking "What do you think of abortion?"
	on soc.women.  This can be done by {cross-post}ing, e.g. any
	message which is crossposted to alt.rush-limbaugh and
	alt.politics.homosexuality will almost inevitably spam both
	groups.  (Compare {troll} and {flame bait}).

	Posting a message to a significant proportion of all
	newsgroups is a sure way to spam Usenet and become an object
	of almost universal hatred.  Canter and Siegel spammed the net
	with their Green card post.

	If you see an article which you think is a deliberate spam, DO
	NOT post a {follow-up} - doing so will only contribute to the
	general annoyance.  Send a polite message to the poster by
	private e-mail and CC it to "postmaster" at the same address.
	Bear in mind that the posting's origin might have been forged
	or the apparent sender's account might have been used by
	someone else without his permission.

	The word was coined as the winning entry in a 1937 competition
	to choose a name for Hormel Foods Corporation's "spiced meat"
	(now officially known as "SPAM luncheon meat").  Correspondant
	Bob White claims the modern use of the term predates Monty
	Python by at least ten years.  He cites an editor for the
	Dallas Times Herald describing Public Relations as "throwing a
	can of spam into an electric fan just to see if any of it
	would stick to the unwary passersby."

	{Usenet} newsgroup: {news:news.admin.net-abuse}.

	See also {netiquette}.

	2. (A narrowing of sense 1, above) To indiscriminately send
	large amounts of unsolicited {e-mail} meant to promote a
	product or service.  Spam in this sense is sort of like the
	electronic equivalent of junk mail sent to "Occupant".

	In the 1990s, with the rise in commercial awareness of the
	net, there are actually scumbags who offer spamming as a
	"service" to companies wishing to advertise on the net.  They
	do this by mailing to collections of {e-mail} addresses,
	Usenet news, or mailing lists.  Such practises have caused
	outrage and aggressive reaction by many net users against the
	individuals concerned.

	3. (Apparently a generalisation of sense 2, above) To abuse
	any network service or tool by for promotional purposes.

	"AltaVista is an {index}, not a promotional tool.  Attempts to
	fill it with promotional material lower the value of the index
	for everyone.  [...] We will disallow {URL} submissions from
	those who spam the index.  In extreme cases, we will exclude
	all their pages from the index." -- {Altavista}.

	4. <jargon, programming> To crash a program by overrunning a
	fixed-size {buffer} with excessively large input data.

	See also {buffer overflow}, {overrun screw}, {smash the stack}.

	5. <chat, games> (A narrowing of sense 1, above) To flood any
	{chat} forum or {Internet game} with purposefully annoying
	text or macros.  Compare {Scrolling}.

	(2003-09-21)

is SOOO
passe.

And well; commenting on JAVA ("it should just die") just because you're not
competent enough to do the things you want really displays a very childish
attitude. Blame the tool, not the programmer.. Well, at least that clears a
lot up and also indicates the value of this whole thread

1. See {multithreading}.

	2. See {threaded code}.

	3. {topic thread}.

	[{Jargon File}]

.

sorry bub; this has been done a zillion times now and its just boring.

--
Groetjes, Peter

.\\ PGP/GPG key: http://www.catslair.org/pubkey.asc

From: Berlin Brown

Date: Friday, January 12, 2007

wrote in message:

> You know I kind of forgot about this forum.
Hmm, I'd be more tempted to call this a usenet group but hey ;)
> it has been a while. But with all of the opensource zealots taking a direct
> stab at JAVA (who really knows why), this is a great time for advocacy.
Is not that a little too little too late? ;-)
While I do agree that many people kept whining about the sourcecode not being
available even though it has been available for years now (which ofcourse at a
later time when more people finally came to realize this was quickly changed to
"the policy sucks") its still become a moot point now that Sun started to
release parts of the JAVA language under the GPL.
> I posted this on reddit a while back, got almost 200 responses:
<cut>
Maybe you should consider getting another hobby, trolling and spamming is SOOO
passe.
And well; commenting on JAVA ("it should just die") just because you're not
competent enough to do the things you want really displays a very childish
attitude. Blame the tool, not the programmer.. Well, at least that clears a
lot up and also indicates the value of this whole thread.
sorry bub; this has been done a zillion times now and its just boring.
--
Groetjes, Peter
.\\ PGP/GPG key: http://www.catslair.org/pubkey.asc

Hehe, where did I say it just die. I was the only defending JAVA. I
was asking the question;
"Why do you guys hate JAVA so much"

"Why do so many reddit users hate JAVA? "

It makes an int

1. <programming> A common name for the {integer} data type.
	In {C} for example, it means a (signed) integer of the
	computer's native {word length}.

	2. <networking> The {top-level domain} for international
	organisations.

	(1999-01-26)

eresting read.

http://programming.reddit.com/info/utqb/comments

From: Lion-O

Date: Friday, January 12, 2007

Maybe you should consider getting another hobby, trolling and spamming is
SOOO passe.

And well; commenting on JAVA ("it should just die") just because you're not
competent enough to do the things you want really displays a very childish
attitude. Blame the tool, not the programmer.. Well, at least that clears a
lot up and also indicates the value of this whole thread.

sorry bub; this has been done a zillion times now and its just boring.

Hehe, where did I say it just die. I was the only defending JAVA. I
was asking the question;
"Why do you guys hate JAVA so much"

Aaaah. Guess I owe you an apoligy and should hereby re-direct my earlier
comments to that Julian Morrison person. Oh well, I checked and sort

1. <application, algorithm> To arrange a collection of items
	in some specified order.  The items - {records} in a file or
	data structures in memory - consist of one or more {fields} or
	members.  One of these fields is designated as the "sort key"
	which means the records will be ordered according to the value
	of that field.  Sometimes a sequence of key fields is
	specified such that if all earlier keys are equal then the
	later keys will be compared.  Within each field some ordering
	is imposed, e.g. ascending or descending numerical, {lexical
	ordering}, or date.

	Sorting is the subject of a great deal of study since it is a
	common operation which can consume a lot of computer time.
	There are many well-known sorting {algorithms} with different
	time and space behaviour and programming {complexity}.

	Examples are {quicksort}, {insertion sort}, {bubble sort},
	{heap sort}, and {tree sort}.  These employ many different
	data structures to store sorted data, such as {arrays},
	{linked lists}, and {binary trees}.

	2. <tool> The {Unix} utility program for sorting lines of
	files.

	{Unix manual page}: sort(1).

	(1997-02-12)

a assumed
that the first post in that thread was yours.

Yeah, when putting it into that context

That which surrounds, and gives meaning to, something else.

	<grammar> In a {grammar} it refers to the symbols before and
	after the symbol under consideration.  If the syntax of a
	symbol is independent of its context, the grammar is said to
	be {context-free}.

I've to admit that this is a lot more
interesting than I first anticipated. Note; (in case you did not realize yet)
I'm not familiar with this website

<World-Wide Web> (Or "website") Any computer on the
	{Internet} running a {World-Wide Web} {server} process.  A
	particular website is usually identified by the {hostname}
	part of a {URL}.  Multiple hostnames may actually map to the
	same computer in which case they are known as "{virtual
	servers}".

	(2005-07-12)

.Well, to get us into a more advocating thread (which this place could really
use IMVHO); I think its a combination

1. <mathematics> A {set} containing a certain number of
	objects selected from another set.

	The number of combinations of r objects chosen from a set of n
	is

		n C r = n! / ((n-r)! r!)

	where "n C r" is normally with n and r as subscripts or as n
	above r in parentheses.

	See also {permutation}.

	2. <reduction> In the theory of {combinators}, a combination
	denotes an expression in which {function application} is the
	only operation.

	(1995-04-10)

of a few JAVA issues. Some consider JAVA
'easy' and IMO

<chat> (From SF fandom via {Usenet}) In My Humble Opinion.
	Also seen in variant forms such as IMO, IMNSHO (In My
	Not-So-Humble Opinion) and IMAO (In My Arrogant Opinion).

	[{Jargon File}]

	(1998-09-24)

they're right there since the language is easy to pick up,
relatively easy to apply and what I like best (but I guess that probably
applies to most OO languages): its relatively easy to break

1. To cause to be {broken} (in any sense).  "Your latest patch
	to the editor broke the paragraph commands."

	2. (Of a program) To stop temporarily, so that it may
	debugged.  The place where it stops is a "{breakpoint}".

	3. To send an {EIA-232} break (two character widths of line
	high) over a {serial line}.

	4. [Unix] To strike whatever key currently causes the tty
	driver to send SIGINT to the current process.  Normally,
	break, delete or {control-C} does this.

	5. "break break" may be said to interrupt a conversation (this
	is an example of verb doubling).  This usage comes from radio
	communications, which in turn probably came from landline
	telegraph/teleprinter usage, as badly abused in the Citizen's
	Band craze a few years ago.

	6. {pipeline break}.

	7. {break statement}.

	[{Jargon File}]

	(2004-03-24)

a complex problem
down into smaller parts and then tackle each part individually.

If you do that right (in an OO style manner) you will end up with seperate
"building blocks" which you can then easily assemble together to solve the
bigger problem brick by brick. However, this /also/ implies

<logic> (=> or a thin right arrow) A binary {Boolean} function
	and {logical connective}.  A => B is true unless A is true and
	B is false.  The {truth table} is

		A B | A => B
		----+-------
		F F |   T
		F T |   T
		T F |   F
		T T |   T

	It is surprising at first that A => B is always true if A is
	false, but if X => Y then we would expect that (X & Z) => Y
	for any Z.

	(1995-09-30)

that in a few cases
there is no way around some heavy coding (heavy in quantity). Just take
assembler; many people will agree that its very powerfull; there's hardly
anything you cannot do with it. The only problem is that its tedious to write.
A mere "hello world" can take up quite a few line

1. <hardware> An electrical conductor.  For distances larger
	than a breadbox, a single line may consist of two electrical
	conductors in twisted, parallel, or concentric arrangement
	used to transport one logical signal.

	By extension, a (usually physical) medium such as an {optical
	fibre} which carries a signal.

	(1995-09-29)

s of code

<software> Instructions for a computer in some programming
	language, often {machine language}.  The word "code" is often
	used to distinguish instructions from {data} (e.g. "The code
	is marked 'read-only'") whereas "{software}" is used in
	contrast with "{hardware}" and may consist of more than just
	code.

	(2000-04-08)

(at least 11 ;-)).

I somewhat put JAVA into that category. When looking at EE programming
(JAVAbeans for example) you will have to apply certain standards which
automaticly implies that in some cases you might be producing more code than
needed to fix the problem merely to comply with the given standards. Some
people consider that too tedious and therefor won't bother. I consider that
short minded thinking since its really not that hard to build up a library

<programming, library> A collection of {subroutines} and
	{functions} stored in one or more files, usually in compiled
	form, for linking with other programs.  Libraries are one of
	the earliest forms of organised {code reuse}.  They are often
	supplied by the {operating system} or {software development
	environment} developer to be used in many different programs.
	The routines in a library may be general purpose or designed
	for some specific function such as three dimensional animated
	graphics.

	Libraries are linked with the user's program to form a
	complete {executable}.  The linking may be {static linking}
	or, in some systems, {dynamic linking}.

	(1998-11-21)

or
template collection which you can use as some sort of skeleton when trying to
set something up.

And ofcourse the IDE

1. <storage> Integrated Drive Electronics, see {Advanced
	Technology Attachment}.

	2. <programming, tool> {integrated development environment}.

	3. <company> {Interactive Development Environments}.

	(2002-04-14)

environment

<programming, operating system> A {variable} that is bound in
	the current environment.  When evaluating an expression in
	some environment, the evaluation of a variable consists of
	looking up its name in the environment and substituting its
	value.

	Most programming languages have some concept of an environment
	but in {Unix} {shell scripts} it has a specific meaning
	slightly different from other contexts.  In shell scripts,
	environment variables are one kind of {shell variable}.  They
	differ from {local variables} and {command line arguments} in
	that they are inheritted by a {child process}.  Examples are
	the PATH variable that tells the shell the {file system}
	{paths} to search to find command {executables} and the TZ
	variable which contains the local time zone.  The variable
	called "SHELL" specifies the type of shell being used.

	These variables are used by commands or {shell scripts} to
	discover things about the environment they are operating in.
	Environment variables can be changed or created by the {user}
	or a program.

	To see a list of environment variables type "setenv" at the
	{csh} or {tcsh} {prompt} or "set" at the {sh}, {bash}, {jsh}
	or {ksh} prompt.

	In other programming languages, e.g. {functional programming}
	languages, the environment is extended with new bindings when
	a {function}'s {parameters} are bound to its {actual
	arguments} or when new variables are declared.  In a
	{block-structured} {procedural} language, the environment
	usually consists of a {linked list} of {activation records}.

	(1999-01-26)

pops up with that idea...For example, lets pick out this post:

--- [ Post from earlier mentioned website ] ---

Trivial example. I want an immutable pure data

<data, data processing, jargon> /day't*/ (Or "raw data")
	Numbers, {characters}, {images}, or other method of recording,
	in a form which can be assessed by a human or (especially)
	input into a {computer}, stored and {processed} there, or
	transmitted on some {digital channel}.  Computers nearly
	always represent data in {binary}.

	Data on its own has no meaning, only when interpreted by some
	kind of {data processing system} does it take on meaning and
	become {information}.

	People or computers can find patterns in data to perceive
	information, and information can be used to enhance
	{knowledge}.  Since knowledge is prerequisite to wisdom, we
	always want more data and information.  But, as modern
	societies verge on {information overload}, we especially need
	better ways to find patterns.

	1234567.89 is data.

	"Your bank balance has jumped 8087% to $1234567.89" is
	information.

	"Nobody owes me that much money" is knowledge.

	"I'd better talk to the bank before I spend it, because of
	what has happened to other people" is wisdom.

	(1999-04-30)

object

<object-oriented> In {object-oriented programming}, an
	instance of the data structure and behaviour defined by the
	object's {class}.  Each object has its own values for the
	{instance variables} of its class and can respond to the
	{methods} defined by its class.

	For example, an object of the "Point" class might have
	instance variables "x" and "y" and might respond to the "plot"
	method by drawing a dot on the screen at those coordinates.

	(2004-01-26)

with field

<data, database> An area of a {database} {record}, or
	{graphical user interface} {form}, into which a particular
	item of data is entered.

	Example usage: "The telephone number field is not really a
	numerical field", "Why do we need a four-digit field for the
	year?".

	A {database} {column} is the set of all instances of a given
	field from all records in a {table}.

	(1999-04-26)

s. At the very
smallest, I use public final fields and set them in the constructor. That means
though that I've to mention every field four times and mention its type
twice, as well as mentioning the class

1. <programming> The prototype for an {object} in an
	{object-oriented language}; analogous to a {derived type} in a
	{procedural language}.  A class may also be considered to be a
	set of objects which share a common structure and behaviour.
	The structure of a class is determined by the {class
	variables} which represent the {state} of an object of that
	class and the behaviour is given by a set of {methods}
	associated with the class.

	Classes are related in a {class hierarchy}.  One class may be
	a specialisation (a "{subclass}") of another (one of its
	"{superclasses}") or it may be composed of other classes or it
	may use other classes in a {client-server} relationship.  A
	class may be an {abstract class} or a {concrete class}.

	See also {signature}.

	2. <programming> See {type class}.

	3. <networking> One of three types of {Internet addresses}
	distinguished by their most significant bits.

	3. <language> A language developed by the {Andrew Project}.
	It was one of the first attempts to add {object-oriented}
	features to {C}.

	(1995-05-01)

name twice:

public class DataObject {

public final int a;

public DataObject(int a) {
this.a = a;
}
}

It's worse if I want setters.

Yes Eclipse can generate

To produce something according to an {algorithm} or program or
	set of rules, or as a (possibly unintended) {side effect} of
	the execution of an algorithm or program.

	The opposite of {parse}.

	[{Jargon File}]

	(1995-06-15)

the above. Not this isn't an excuse. I still have to
read past all that line noise

<communications> Any part of a signal that is not the true or
	original signal but is introduced by the communication
	mechanism.

	A common example would be an electrical signal travelling down
	a wire to which noise is added by inductive and capacitive
	coupling with other nearby signals (this kind of noise is
	known as "{crosstalk}").

	A less obvious form of noise is {quantisation} noise, such as
	the error between the true colour of a point in a scene in the
	real world and its representation as a {pixel} in a digital
	image.

	(2003-07-05)

if I want to maintain the class.

Now, it'd be fairly trivial to make a Ruby

<language>

	1. A {relational language} designed by Jones and M. Sheeran in
	1986 for describing and designing circuits (a {hardware
	description language}).  Ruby programs denote {binary
	relations} and programs are built-up inductively from
	primitive relations using a pre-defined set of {relational
	operators}.  Ruby programs also have a geometric
	interpretation as networks of primitive relations connected by
	wires, which is important when layout is considered in circuit
	design.

	Ruby has been continually developed since 1986, and has been
	used to design many different kinds of circuits, including
	{systolic arrays}, {butterfly networks} and arithmetic
	circuits.

	{(ftp://ftp.cs.chalmers.se/pub/misc/ruby/)}.

	E-mail: <graham@cs.chalmers.se>.

	["Ruby - A Language of Relations and Higher-Order Functions",
	M. Sheeran, Proc 3rd Banff Workshop on Hardware Verification,
	Springer 1990].

	(1994-10-27)

	2. One of five pedagogical languages based on {Markov
	algorithms}, used in Higman's report (below).  The other
	languages are {Brilliant}, {Diamond}, {Nonpareil}, and
	{Pearl}.

	["Nonpareil, a Machine Level Machine Independent Language for
	the Study of Semantics", B. Higman, ULICS Intl Report No ICSI
	170, U London (1968)].

	(1994-10-27)

	3. A fully {object oriented} {interpreted} {scripting
	language} by Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@netlab.co.jp>.

	Similar in scope to {Perl} and {Python}, Ruby has high-level
	{data types}, automatic {memory management}, {dynamic typing},
	a {module} system, {exceptions}, and a rich standard library.
	Other features are {CLU}-style {iterators} for {loop
	abstraction}, {singleton classes}/{methods} and {lexical
	closures}.

	In Ruby, everything is an {object}, including the basic data
	types.  For example, the number 1 is an instance of {class}
	Fixnum.

	Current version (stable): 1.6.7, as of 2002-03-01.

	{Ruby Home (http://www.ruby-lang.org/)}.

	{Ruby Central (http://www.rubycentral.com/)}.

	["Programming Ruby - The Pragmatic Programmer's Guide", David
	Thomas, Andrew Hunt, Yukihiro Matsumoto pub. Addison Wesley
	2000].

	(2002-06-19)

mixin that'd let me do:

class DataObject
attr_reader a
include

[{Usenet}] 1. To duplicate a portion (or whole) of another's
	message (typically with attribution to the source) in a reply
	or followup, for clarifying the context of one's response.
	See the discussion of inclusion styles under "Hacker Writing
	Style".

	2. [{C}] "#include <disclaimer.h>" has appeared in {sig
	blocks} to refer to a notional "standard {disclaimer} file".

	[{Jargon File}]

InitializeReadOnly
end

and then

d = DataObject.new 42

...but there's no way to have that kind of flexibility in JAVA, at least not
without resorting to a bytecode enhancer, a precompiler or a computed proxy.

--- [ EOP ] ---

I once again disagree with a passion. When it comes to readability the code he
creates first is much more to the point than the second code snipplet. Ofcourse
this guy is an idiot when it comes to JAVA since "final" means just that. You
cannot assign a new value to a final variable.

Which immediatly brings me to: how well do people who criticize JAVA actually
know it? Sure, JAVA will have its flaws just like any language. But is it fair
to portrait a language in the lights of another?

I do not think so ;)

--
Groetjes, Peter

.\\ PGP/GPG key: http://www.catslair.org/pubkey.asc

From: Jeroen Wenting

Date: Saturday, January 13, 2007

...but there's no way to have that kind of flexibility in JAVA, at least
not
without resorting to a bytecode enhancer, a precompiler or a computed
proxy.

simple: if you want a non-typed language, do not use JAVA (or C, C++, Pascal,
etc. etc. etc.).
Of course this kind of kid is just the kind who screams their demands for
making JAVA into Ruby that we see a lot these days.

--- [ EOP ] ---
I once again disagree with a passion. When it comes to readability the
code he
creates first is much more to the point than the second code snipplet.
Ofcourse
this guy is an idiot when it comes to JAVA since "final" means just that.
You
cannot assign a new value to a final variable.
Which immediatly brings me to: how well do people who criticize JAVA
actually
know it? Sure, JAVA will have its flaws just like any language. But is it
fair
to portrait a language in the lights of another?
I do not think so ;)

That's exactly what the kids do. And Sun is picking up on that and adding
everything to JAVA that any other language has.
The score so far:
generics, autoboxing, embedded database engine, embedded webserver,
metaprogramming.
coming soon: function

1. <mathematics> (Or "map", "mapping") If D and C are sets
	(the domain and codomain) then a function f from D to C,
	normally written "f : D -> C" is a subset of D x C such that:

	1. For each d in D there exists some c in C such that (d,c) is
	an element of f.  I.e. the function is defined for every
	element of D.

	2. For each d in D, c1 and c2 in C, if both (d,c1) and (d,c2)
	are elements of f then c1 = c2.  I.e. the function is uniquely
	defined for every element of D.

	See also {image}, {inverse}, {partial function}.

	2. <programming> Computing usage derives from the mathematical
	term but is much less strict.  In programming (except in
	{functional programming}), a function may return different
	values each time it is called with the same argument values
	and may have {side effects}.

	A {procedure} is a function which returns no value but has
	only {side-effects}.  The {C} language, for example, has no
	procedures, only functions.  {ANSI C} even defines a {type},
	{void}, for the result of a function that has no result.

	(1996-09-01)

pointers, implicit getters and setters ("properties").

From: Berlin Brown

Date: Saturday, January 13, 2007

wrote in message:

>
> ...but there's no way to have that kind of flexibility in JAVA, at least
> not
> without resorting to a bytecode enhancer, a precompiler or a computed
> proxy.
>
simple: if you want a non-typed language, do not use JAVA (or C, C++, Pascal,
etc. etc. etc.).
Of course this kind of kid is just the kind who screams their demands for
making JAVA into Ruby that we see a lot these days.
> --- [ EOP ] ---
>
> I once again disagree with a passion. When it comes to readability the
> code he
> creates first is much more to the point than the second code snipplet.
> Ofcourse
> this guy is an idiot when it comes to JAVA since "final" means just that.
> You
> cannot assign a new value to a final variable.
>
> Which immediatly brings me to: how well do people who criticize JAVA
> actually
> know it? Sure, JAVA will have its flaws just like any language. But is it
> fair
> to portrait a language in the lights of another?
>
> I do not think so ;)
>
That's exactly what the kids do. And Sun is picking up on that and adding
everything to JAVA that any other language has.
The score so far:
generics, autoboxing, embedded database engine, embedded webserver,
metaprogramming.
coming soon: function pointers, implicit getters and setters ("properties").

What about all the languages that exist on the JVM. JRuby, Jython,
Scala, on and on.
I kind of feel sorry for Sun. They created a technology

<jargon> {Marketroid} jargon for "{software}", "{hardware}",
	"{protocol}" or something else too technical to name.

	The most flagrant abuse of this word has to be "{Windows NT}"
	(New Technology) - {Microsoft}'s attempt to make the
	incorporation of some ancient concepts into their OS sound
	like real progress.  The irony, and even the meaning, of this
	seems to be utterly lost on Microsoft whose {Windows 2000}
	start-up screen proclaims "Based on NT Technology", (meaning
	yet another version of NT, including some {Windows 95}
	features at last).

	See also: {solution}.

	(2001-06-28)

that is
pervasive, practical and easy to use. But there were some flaws early
on that seemed to have rubbed some alpha hackers the wrong way. I
still use it, make money using it and will probably continue to use it.

Bot Berlin
http://www.botspiritcompany.com/botlist

From: asjbiotek

Date: Saturday, March 03, 2007

wrote in message:

You know I kind of forgot about this forum. it has been a while. But
with all of the opensource zealots taking a direct stab at JAVA (who
really knows why), this is a great time for advocacy.

did I miss something? I thought parts of JAVA were open sourced (not
that any of that affected me much - lol).....

Next Message: Excellent JAVA J2ee interview questions

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