Way too much time spent with Eclipse

9 Message(s) by 4 Author(s) originally posted in java programmer

From: lyallex

Date: Saturday, October 27, 2007

Hello

I have the following interface

<jargon> A boundary across which two systems communicate.  An
	interface might be a hardware connector used to link to other
	devices, or it might be a convention used to allow
	communication between two software systems.  Often there is
	some intermediate component between the two systems which
	connects their interfaces together.  For example, two {EIA-232}
	interfaces connected via a serial cable.

	See also {graphical user interface}, {Application Program
	Interface}.

	(1996-05-22)

in my working directory

<file system> A node in a hierarchical {file system} which
	contains zero or more other nodes - generally, {files} or
	other directories.

	Compare {folder}.

	(1997-04-10)

(C:\JAVA>)

public interface Foo {
public void doSomething();
}

As you can see, there is no expicit package definition so this class

1. <programming> The prototype for an {object} in an
	{object-oriented language}; analogous to a {derived type} in a
	{procedural language}.  A class may also be considered to be a
	set of objects which share a common structure and behaviour.
	The structure of a class is determined by the {class
	variables} which represent the {state} of an object of that
	class and the behaviour is given by a set of {methods}
	associated with the class.

	Classes are related in a {class hierarchy}.  One class may be
	a specialisation (a "{subclass}") of another (one of its
	"{superclasses}") or it may be composed of other classes or it
	may use other classes in a {client-server} relationship.  A
	class may be an {abstract class} or a {concrete class}.

	See also {signature}.

	2. <programming> See {type class}.

	3. <networking> One of three types of {Internet addresses}
	distinguished by their most significant bits.

	3. <language> A language developed by the {Andrew Project}.
	It was one of the first attempts to add {object-oriented}
	features to {C}.

	(1995-05-01)

is
in the default package. Why do I want to do this ? well it's part of an
exploration of classloading and the classloader architecture

<architecture> Design, the way components fit together.  The
	term is used particularly of {processors}, both individual and
	in general.  "The {ARM} has a really clean architecture".  It
	may also be used of any complex system, e.g. "software
	architecture", "network architecture".

	(1995-05-02)

and for the
fist time in I do not know how many years I'm working on the command

<operating system> A character string which tells a program to
	perform a specific action.  Most commands take {arguments}
	which either modify the action performed or supply it with
	input.  Commands may be typed by the user or read from a file
	by a {command interpreter}.  It is also common to refer to
	menu items as commands.

	(1997-06-21)

line

1. <hardware> An electrical conductor.  For distances larger
	than a breadbox, a single line may consist of two electrical
	conductors in twisted, parallel, or concentric arrangement
	used to transport one logical signal.

	By extension, a (usually physical) medium such as an {optical
	fibre} which carries a signal.

	(1995-09-29)

without Eclipse to tell me when I did something stupid.

To cut a long story short I wanted to refer to this interface in a
packaged class and I can not because you can not app

<programming, operating system> (Or "application", "app") A
	complete, self-contained program that performs a specific
	function directly for the user.  This is in contrast to system
	software such as the {operating system} {kernel}, {server}
	processes and libraries which exists to support application
	programs.

	Editors for various kinds of documents, {spreadsheets}, and
	text formatters are common examples of applications.  Network
	applications include clients such as those for {FTP},
	{electronic mail}, {telnet} and {WWW}.

	The term is used fairly loosely, for instance, some might say
	that a client and server together form a distributed
	application, others might argue that editors and compilers
	were not applications but tools for building applications.

	One distinction between an application program and the
	operating system is that applications always run in "user
	mode" (or "non-privileged mode"), while operating systems and
	related utilities may run in "supervisor mode" (or "privileged
	mode").

	The term may also be used to distinguish programs which
	communicate via a {graphical user interface} from those which
	are executed from the {command line}.

	(1994-11-28)

arently use classes in
the default package from within a named

<networking> Name Daemon.

	<networking> A {Unix} {background} process that converts
	{hostnames} to {Internet addresses} for the {TCP/IP}
	{protocol}.

	{Unix manual page}: named(8).

	See also {DNS}.

	(1995-03-28)

package.

I'm trying to understand why this is but I'm not getting too far, I'm
sure I did know it once, a long time ago but I have sure forgoten it now.

Why can not you use classes in the default package from within a named
package.

Thanks

From: Lew

Date: Saturday, October 27, 2007

wrote in message

In {object-oriented programming} sending a message to an
	{object} (to invoke a {method}) is equivalent to calling a
	{procedure} in traditional programming languages, except that
	the actual code executed may only be selected at run time
	depending on the {class} of the object.  Thus, in response to
	the message "drawSelf", the method code invoked would be
	different if the target object were a circle or a square.

	(1995-02-16)

Hello
I have the following interface in my working directory (C:\JAVA>)
public interface Foo {
public void doSomething();
}
As you can see, there is no expicit package definition so this class is
in the default package. Why do I want to do this ? well it's part of an
exploration of classloading and the classloader architecture and for the
fist time in I do not know how many years I'm working on the command line
without Eclipse to tell me when I did something stupid.
To cut a long story short I wanted to refer to this interface in a
packaged class and I can not because you can not apparently use classes in
the default package from within a named package.
I'm trying to understand why this is but I'm not getting too far, I'm
sure I did know it once, a long time ago but I have sure forgoten it now.
Why can not you use classes in the default package from within a named
package.

Because the JLS explicitly forbids import

<data> To read data that is not in the native format of the
	application.  For example, a {web browser} will have its own
	way of storing {bookmarks} but it will usually provide a
	function to import bookmarks from {Internet Explorer}.  The
	alternative is to provide an independent external conversion
	utility but this is usually less convenient for the user.

	(2004-11-15)

ing the unnamed (not "default")
package.

It'd defeat the whole point

1. <unit, text> (Sometimes abbreviated "pt") The unit of
	length used in {typography} to specify text character height,
	{rule} width, and other small measurements.

	There are six slightly different definitions: {Truchet point},
	{Didot point}, {ATA point}, {TeX point}, {Postscript point},
	and {IN point}.

	In Europe, the most commonly used is Didot and in the US, the
	formerly standard ATA point has essentially been replaced by
	the PostScript point due to the demise of traditional
	typesetting systems and rise of desktop computer based systems
	running software such as {QuarkXPress}, {Adobe InDesign} and
	{Adobe Pagemaker}.

	There are 20 {twips} in a point and 12 points in a {pica}
	(known as a "Cicero" in the Didot system).

	{Different point systems
	(http://www.vakcer.com/oberon/dtp/fonts/point.htm)}.

	(2004-12-23)

	2. <hardware> To move a {pointing device} so that the
	on-screen pointer is positioned over a certain object on the
	screen such as a {button} in a {graphical user interface}.  In
	most {window systems} it is then necessary to {click} a
	(physical) button on the pointing device to activate or select
	the object.  In some systems, just pointing to an object is
	known as "mouse-over" {event} which may cause some help text
	(called a "tool tip" in {Windows}) to be displayed.

	(2001-05-21)

of having packages.

<http://JAVA.sun.com/docs/books/jls/third_edition/html/packages.html#7.4.2>

Unnamed packages are provided by the JAVA platform

Specific computer hardware, as in the phrase
	"platform-independent".  It may also refer to a specific
	combination of hardware and {operating system} and/or
	{compiler}, as in "this program has been ported to several
	platforms".  It is also used to refer to support software for
	a particular activity, as in "This program provides a platform
	for research into routing protocols".

	(1994-12-07)

principally for convenience
when developing small or temporary applications or when just beginning development.

<http://JAVA.sun.com/docs/books/jls/third_edition/html/packages.html#7.5>

A type

<theory, programming> (Or "data type") A set of values from
	which a {variable}, {constant}, {function}, or other
	{expression} may take its value.  A type is a classification
	of data that tells the {compiler} or {interpreter} how the
	programmer intends to use it.  For example, the process and
	result of adding two variables differs greatly according to
	whether they are integers, floating point numbers, or strings.

	Types supported by most programming languages include
	{integers} (usually limited to some range so they will fit in
	one {word} of storage), {Booleans}, {floating point numbers},
	and characters.  {Strings} are also common, and are
	represented as {lists} of characters in some languages.

	If s and t are types, then so is s -> t, the type of
	{functions} from s to t; that is, give them a term of type s,
	functions of type s -> t will return a term of type t.

	Some types are {primitive} - built-in to the language, with no
	visible internal structure - e.g. Boolean; others are
	composite - constructed from one or more other types (of
	either kind) - e.g. {lists}, {arrays}, {structures}, {unions}.
	{Object-oriented programming} extends this with {classes}
	which encapsulate both the structure of a type and the
	operations that can be performed on it.

	Some languages provide {strong typing}, others allow {implicit
	type conversion} and/or {explicit type conversion}.

	(2003-12-22)

-import-on-demand declaration (Â§7.5.2) imports all the accessible (Â§6.6)
types of a named type or package as needed.
It is a compile time error

1. A discrepancy between a computed, observed, or measured
	value or condition and the true, specified, or theoretically
	correct value or condition.

	2. <programming> A mental mistake made by a programmer that
	may result in a program {fault}.

	3. (verb) What a program does when it stops as result of a
	programming error.

	(2000-03-28)

to import a type from the unnamed package.

Of course, if you do not import the unnamed package then you can not refer to
classes within it from a named package.

Packages are fundamental to the organization of JAVA programs, thus the rule.

--
Lew

From: Daniel Dyer

Date: Saturday, October 27, 2007

wrote in message:

wrote in message:
Hello
I have the following interface in my working directory (C:\JAVA>)
public interface Foo {
public void doSomething();
}
As you can see, there is no expicit package definition so this class
is in the default package. Why do I want to do this ? well it's part of
an exploration of classloading and the classloader architecture and for
the fist time in I do not know how many years I'm working on the command
line without Eclipse to tell me when I did something stupid.
To cut a long story short I wanted to refer to this interface in a
packaged class and I can not because you can not apparently use classes in
the default package from within a named package.
I'm trying to understand why this is but I'm not getting too far, I'm
sure I did know it once, a long time ago but I have sure forgoten it now.
Why can not you use classes in the default package from within a named
package.
Because the JLS explicitly forbids importing the unnamed (not "default")
package.

...

<http://JAVA.sun.com/docs/books/jls/third_edition/html/packages.html#7.5>
A type-import-on-demand declaration (Â§7.5.2) imports all the accessible
(Â§6.6) types of a named type or package as needed. It is a compile time
error to import a type from the unnamed package.

The confusion probably stems from the fact that this statement wasn't in
the previous version

<programming> One of a sequence of copies of a program, each
	incorporating new modifications.  Each version is usually
	identified by a number, commonly of the form X.Y where X is
	the major version number and Y is the release number.
	Typically an increment in X (with Y reset to zero) signifies a
	substantial increase in the function of the program or a
	partial or total re-implementation, whereas Y increases each
	time the progam is changed in any way and re-released.

	Version numbers are useful so that the user can know if the
	program has changed ({bugs} have been fixed or new functions
	added) since he obtained his copy and the programmer can tell
	if a bug report relates to the current version.  It is thus
	always important to state the version when reporting bugs.
	Statements about compatibility between different software
	components should always say which versions they apply to.

	See {change management}.

	(1997-12-07)

of the JLS and (prior to JDK

<language, compiler> (JDK) A free {Sun Microsystems} product
	which provides the {environment} required for programming in
	{Java}.  The JDK is available for a variety of {platforms},
	but most notably {Sun Solaris} and {Microsoft Windows}.

	{Home (http://java.sun.com/products/jdk/1.1/index.html)}.

	[Version?]

	(1997-09-04)

1.4) Sun's compiler

<programming, tool> A program that converts another program
	from some {source language} (or {programming language}) to
	{machine language} (object code).  Some compilers output
	{assembly language} which is then converted to {machine
	language} by a separate {assembler}.

	A compiler is distinguished from an assembler by the fact that
	each input statement does not, in general, correspond to a
	single machine instruction or fixed sequence of instructions.
	A compiler may support such features as automatic allocation
	of variables, arbitrary arithmetic expressions, control
	structures such as FOR and WHILE loops, variable {scope},
	input/ouput operations, {higher-order functions} and
	{portability} of source code.

	{AUTOCODER}, written in 1952, was possibly the first primitive
	compiler.  {Laning and Zierler}'s compiler, written in
	1953-1954, was possibly the first true working algebraic
	compiler.

	See also {byte-code compiler}, {native compiler}, {optimising
	compiler}.

	(1994-11-07)

did
allow classes from the unnamed/default package to be used from named
packages.

Dan.

--
Daniel Dyer
https://watchmaker.dev.JAVA.net - Evolutionary Computation for JAVA

From: Lew

Date: Saturday, October 27, 2007

wrote in message:

The confusion probably stems from the fact that this statement wasn't
in the previous version of the JLS and (prior to JDK 1.4) Sun's compiler
did allow classes from the unnamed/default package to be used from named
packages.

Somewhere in the last five years they must have lost the excuse to be confused
by that. "Prior to JDK 1.4" is already obsolete, and long since.

The JLS second edition did have some restrictions on the unnamed type, but
they were implicit. For example,
<http://JAVA.sun.com/docs/books/jls/second_edition/html/packages.doc.html#70209>

A type-import-on-demand declaration (Â§7.5.2) imports all the accessible types
of a named type or package as needed.

Note that it explicitly refers to a named type or package. That leaves

<mathematics, data> (Or "terminal node") In a {tree}, a node
	which has no {daughter}.

	(1998-11-14)

single-type-import declarations as the only way to pull

<messaging> A model of media distribution were the bits of
	content have to be requested by the user, e.g. normal use of
	{HTTP} on the {World-Wide Web}.

	Opposite: "{push media}".

	(1997-04-10)

in classes from the
unnamed (not "default") package, equivalent to having no import in such a case.

It remains that the changes to that part of the JLS are three years old now,
and after all this time one should no more be stuck in the old way about the
unnamed package than about the memory

<storage> These days, usually used synonymously with {Random
	Access Memory} or {Read-Only Memory}, but in the general sense
	it can be any device that can hold {data} in
	{machine-readable} format.

	(1996-05-25)

model.

--
Lew

From: Daniel Dyer

Date: Saturday, October 27, 2007

wrote in message:

wrote in message:
The confusion probably stems from the fact that this statement wasn't
in the previous version of the JLS and (prior to JDK 1.4) Sun's
compiler did allow classes from the unnamed/default package to be used
from named packages.
Somewhere in the last five years they must have lost the excuse to be
confused by that. "Prior to JDK 1.4" is already obsolete, and long
since.

...

It remains that the changes to that part of the JLS are three years old
now, and after all this time one should no more be stuck in the old way
about the unnamed package than about the memory model.

Yes, but I think that the OP's confusion is justifiable. It would've
been easy to miss this fairly minor change at the time it happened and,
given Sun's usual commitment to JAVA backwards compatibility, it'd be
surprising to discover that the rules have changed since the last time
they tried to use the unnamed package (assuming, of course, that the OP
developed pre-1.4 JAVA and that this was the root

1. <operating system> The {Unix} {superuser} account (with
	user name "root" and user ID 0) that overrides file
	permissions.  The term {avatar} is also used.  By extension,
	the privileged system-maintenance login on any {operating
	system}.

	See {root mode}, {go root}, {wheel}.

	[{Jargon File}]

	(1994-10-27)

	2. <operating system> {root directory}.

	(1996-11-21)

	3. <data> {root node}.

	(1998-11-14)

of their
misunderstanding).

Dan.

--
Daniel Dyer
https://watchmaker.dev.JAVA.net - Evolutionary Computation for JAVA

From: lyallex

Date: Saturday, October 27, 2007

wrote in message:
wrote in message:
wrote in message:
The confusion probably stems from the fact that this statement was
not in the previous version of the JLS and (prior to JDK 1.4) Sun's
compiler did allow classes from the unnamed/default package to be
used from named packages.

Somewhere in the last five years they must have lost the excuse to be
confused by that. "Prior to JDK 1.4" is already obsolete, and long
since.
...
It remains that the changes to that part of the JLS are three years
old now, and after all this time one should no more be stuck in the
old way about the unnamed package than about the memory model.
Yes, but I think that the OP's confusion is justifiable. It would've
been easy to miss this fairly minor change at the time it happened and,
given Sun's usual commitment to JAVA backwards compatibility, it'd
be surprising to discover that the rules have changed since the last
time they tried to use the unnamed package (assuming, of course, that
the OP developed pre-1.4 JAVA and that this was the root of their
misunderstanding).
Dan.

Yes, well I have been developing in JAVA since way back. I first used JDK
1.1 around the end of '97 and did my final year degree

The degree (or valency) of a node in a graph is the number of
	edges joined to it.

project using
J2SE 1.2 around end 1999/bginning 2000. That was probably the last time
wrote in message a class that did not have a package declaration in it ...

As for anything prior to JDK 1.4 being obsolete, my last position was
with a company that had a viable product

See {tuple}.

range

1. <data, graphics> Data representing a two-dimensional scene.
	A digital image is composed of {pixels} arranged in a
	rectangular array with a certain height and width.  Each pixel
	may consist of one or more {bits} of information, representing
	the brightness of the image at that point and possibly
	including colour information encoded as {RGB} triples.

	{Images} are usually taken from the real world via a {digital
	camera}, {frame grabber}, or {scanner}; or they may be
	generated by computer, e.g. by {ray tracing} software.

	See also {image formats}, {image processing}.

	(1994-10-21)

	2. <mathematics> The image (or range) of a {function} is the
	set of values obtained by applying the function to all
	elements of its {domain}.  So, if f : D -> C then the set f(D)
	= \{ f(d) | d in D \} is the image of D under f.  The image is
	a subset of C, the {codomain}.

	(2000-01-19)

still being developed and
maintained in JAVA 1.3 and they are still making money and see no reason
to change just because the latest greatest thing has been released.

Personally I like to use the latest versions for no other reason that it
is the latest version and I like to keep up with things so in the end I
had to go :))

Still, I think I get the picture

1. <data, graphics> Data representing a two-dimensional scene.
	A digital image is composed of {pixels} arranged in a
	rectangular array with a certain height and width.  Each pixel
	may consist of one or more {bits} of information, representing
	the brightness of the image at that point and possibly
	including colour information encoded as {RGB} triples.

	{Images} are usually taken from the real world via a {digital
	camera}, {frame grabber}, or {scanner}; or they may be
	generated by computer, e.g. by {ray tracing} software.

	See also {image formats}, {image processing}.

	(1994-10-21)

	2. <mathematics> The image (or range) of a {function} is the
	set of values obtained by applying the function to all
	elements of its {domain}.  So, if f : D -> C then the set f(D)
	= \{ f(d) | d in D \} is the image of D under f.  The image is
	a subset of C, the {codomain}.

	(2000-01-19)

now. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Duncan

From: Lew

Date: Saturday, October 27, 2007

wrote in message:

As for anything prior to JDK 1.4 being obsolete, my last position was
with a company that had a viable product range still being developed and
maintained in JAVA 1.3 and they are still making money and see no reason
to change just because the latest greatest thing has been released.

This "latest greatest thing" they excoriate is JAVA 1.4, which itself is over
five years old, almost six, and going into End-of-Life in its own right.

That seems beyond conservatism.

--
Lew

From: =?UTF-8?B?QXJuZSBWYWpow7hq?=

Date: Saturday, October 27, 2007

wrote in message:
wrote in message:
As for anything prior to JDK 1.4 being obsolete, my last position was
with a company that had a viable product range still being developed
and maintained in JAVA 1.3 and they are still making money and see no
reason to change just because the latest greatest thing has been
released.
This "latest greatest thing" they excoriate is JAVA 1.4, which itself is
over five years old, almost six, and going into End-of-Life in its own
right.
That seems beyond conservatism.

If it cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to certify the
application with a new JAVA version, then there are reasons
not to upgrade.

And I think IBM

<company> (IBM) The best known American computer manufacturer,
	founded by Thomas J. Watson (born 1874-02-17), known as "Big
	Blue" after the colour of its logo.  IBM makes everything from
	{mainframes} to {personal computers} (PCs) and has been
	immensely successful in selling them, chiefly to business.  It
	has often been said that "Nobody has ever been sacked for
	buying IBM".

	The {IBM PC} in its various versions has been so successful
	that unqualified reference to a "PC" almost certainly means a
	PC from IBM, or one of the many brands of {clone} produced by
	other manufacturers to cash in on IBM's original success.

	Alternative expansions of "IBM" such as Inferior But
	Marketable; It's Better Manually; Insidious Black Magic; It's
	Been Malfunctioning; Incontinent Bowel Movement, illustrate
	the considerable antipathy most hackers have long felt toward
	the "industry leader" (see {fear and loathing}).

	Quarterly sales $15351M, profits $689M (Aug 1994).

	{Home (http://www.ibm.com/)}.

	(1999-04-07)

still support

After-sale handholding; something many software vendors
	promise but few deliver.  To hackers, most support people are
	useless - because by the time a hacker calls support he or she
	will usually know the software and the relevant manuals better
	than the support people (sadly, this is *not* a joke or
	exaggeration).  A hacker's idea of "support" is a tte--tte
	or exchange of {electronic mail} with the software's designer.

	[{Jargon File}]

	(1995-02-15)

1.3.1 - if you pay for a service
contract.

SUN may even do the same for JAVA on Solaris.

That said - it is a risk that need to be evaluated. If the app is
expected to live for many years, then it becomes a question of "when"
instead of "if".

But often it'll wait until the app needs to be updated for other
reasons.

Arne

From: lyallex

Date: Saturday, October 27, 2007

wrote in message:
wrote in message:
As for anything prior to JDK 1.4 being obsolete, my last position was
with a company that had a viable product range still being developed
and maintained in JAVA 1.3 and they are still making money and see no
reason to change just because the latest greatest thing has been
released.
This "latest greatest thing" they excoriate is JAVA 1.4, which itself is
over five years old, almost six, and going into End-of-Life in its own
right.
That seems beyond conservatism.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/excoriate
excoriate: to denounce or berate severely; flay verbally:

Gosh, I had to look that one up ;-)

I do not think anyone is doing any excoriating(?), they just do not see
the point of changing something that still earns them their salaries.
Sounds like good commercial sense to me. I do agree that there probably
will come a time when it's all just a bit

<unit> (b) {binary} digit.

	The unit of information; the amount of information obtained by
	asking a yes-or-no question; a computational quantity that can
	take on one of two values, such as false and true or 0 and 1;
	the smallest unit of storage - sufficient to hold one bit.

	A bit is said to be "set" if its value is true or 1, and
	"reset" or "clear" if its value is false or 0.  One speaks of
	setting and clearing bits.  To {toggle} or "invert" a bit is
	to change it, either from 0 to 1 or from 1 to 0.

	The term "bit" first appeared in print in the computer-science
	sense in 1949, and seems to have been coined by the eminent
	statistician, {John Tukey}.  Tukey records that it evolved
	over a lunch table as a handier alternative to "bigit" or
	"binit".

	See also {flag}, {trit}, {mode bit}, {byte}, {word}.

	[{Jargon File}]

	(2002-01-22)

too old hat

A common (spoken) name for the circumflex ("^", ASCII 94)
	character.

	See {ASCII} for other synonyms.

	[{Jargon File}]

and they have to
move on.

Anyway, let's not argue about it, far more important things to be
getting on with now that I have finally got my head around classloaders.

JAVA still lights my fire even after all these years.

Duncan

Next Message: ""MAN+_-WOMAN_+|=SEX WORLD""

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Really?? I replied. ?It?s too bad our two countries don?t get along better. My grandfather spent some time in Iran, and he loved it.? (After thirty years in the Air Force, his military adventures are so much better than mine.) ...

Java IDE Review
It has a TON of plug-ins to do pretty much everything I wanted, but I admit I didn't spend much time to figure them out. Overall, it's a really good editor, but a bit quirky. I liked the alt+arrow key combo for indenting code, ...

i was following web site the howto recover ubuntu after installing ...
Tomboy is great, but I forget to restart it, and it doesn’t remind me. you can use Eclipse. Malachi, google calendar? Why not just save as jpeg from gimp? for development in pretty much anything. Yeah, but I’m looking for something that ...

Ten Things I Think I Think
7: I Couldn’t Code Java Without Eclipse: I say this not because Eclipse is just the greatest Java IDE of all time, but because I’ve invested so much time learning so many of its tricks. Really any modern Java IDE probably has equivalent ...